You know what's worse than showing your
Bitter Beer Face to the world after you passed on Apple's iPhone and let AT&T enjoy the spoils? Raising your early termination fee to stratospheric heights. Just over a year ago, we honestly though this whole
ETF thing was headed in the
right direction, as most of the major carriers (
VZW included) sought to
prorate contracts in order to
lessen the charge as one's contract drew closer to an end. Now, however, Big Red is evidently gearing up to pull a 180, with the slide above showing a $350 ETF for "advanced" devices (read: probably anything deemed a smartphone). The newly hiked rate will go into effect on November 15th, and while that $350 will decrease by $10 per month over the life of the agreement, this pretty much guarantees that you won't be adding a line, disconnecting and then flipping that phone on eBay.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
fastharryDOTcom @ Nov 4th 2009 9:10AM
I don't like the sound of this!!
uwaga dude @ Nov 4th 2009 3:40PM
Can't say I didn't expect this from Verapezon.
Justin @ Nov 4th 2009 9:30AM
Here's a reason for us to write letters and get angry and stuff.
jeremy @ Nov 4th 2009 10:00AM
i remember the good old days when news was actually just that, news. it would be so nice if you could report the news without making it personal full of your own feelings and opinions. thanks.
Crunch @ Nov 4th 2009 11:13AM
Well, it does make sense in a way. If I were a Verizon customer, which I am fortunately not and never will be, it is no longer possible to buy, oh, let's say the BlackBerry Storm2 on a BuyOne GetOne Free basis, and then turn around and cancel only to sell the goods on ebay. ;)
On AT&T, that would be the iPhone 3G/S of course, so AT&T can't be far behind. Maybe it would be smart for AT&T to try to draw VZW customers away to them by NOT raising its ETF.
Anyone getting a Storm2 from Big Red? Haha...Well, you got 11 days to do it, with the low, low ETF of only $175. Go get, while the getting's good. ;)
schezy @ Nov 5th 2009 9:54PM
I would imagine that the higher etf would be able to stop people just like you from abusing the policies Verizon puts in place to actually protect its customers.
Lets be honest here, you can all freak over a higher termination fee if you have a blackberry, but if the service works (which we all know it does), there is really no reason to terminate. Those reasons that are valid (ie death) get waived. Take a chill pill...
bread0124 @ Nov 4th 2009 10:15AM
Dont leave verizon then. They are not big red for losing money. Maybe they are communists. Maybe Obama is in on it! I smell a conspiracy.
Charley Brown @ Nov 4th 2009 10:32AM
Wow, just one more reason to not renew your contract with VZW... I was hoping to stay on board too... the Blackberry Bold 2 with Tmobile or AT&T is looking more and more appealing.
http://www.blackberrybold2.com
Bluecat @ Nov 4th 2009 10:34AM
Fork Verizon. I don't understand how vz customers bitch about them all the time and still stay with them. Just like sheep to the slaughter no matter what big red does they follow. For the record I had vz for two years and as soon as my contract was up I left. Most horrible customer experience I ever had.
canobeano @ Nov 4th 2009 10:37AM
It also guarantees that I'll be sticking with AT&T.
bread0124 @ Nov 4th 2009 10:54AM
@ bluecat. um cuz the phones work. Yeah the customer service blows but at least im mobile on my mobile phone. Where you going to go? At&t with their more dropped calls in more places? Or how about Sprint where when you have a problem "johnny" from mumbai can help you. Tmobile? Did you read the article yesterday? Pick your poison. At least I have a map for mine :)
Christoper @ Nov 4th 2009 11:03AM
I have Verizon for numerous reasons. I've had MCI Worldcom and got stuck with an almost900 dollar bill that ended up in collections before it landedon my door when they collapsed. I had Nextel and Sprint bot with horrible csr experiences, Also had Verizon for a hot minute there too. I have Verizon because pretty much my whole family and my fiancee's family has it.
With all that being said, I'm leaving Verizon come January when my fiancee's contract is up on our family plan.
I love the speedy csr pickups. I'm never on hold for more than a few minutes when I call, unlike when I was on Sprint and would sit on hold for 45 minutes on the regular disputing charges and other problems.
But, Verizon not just with this retarded INCREASE for an ETF, but when I went to purchase the HTC Hero since I'm available for an upgrade I was informed of Verizons mandatory data service plan for all PDA phones.
I don't want and don't need the web. I need it for texting, I prefer the qwerty style keyboard that I've had dating back to my Palm Treo 600. CSR pointed me to 2 garbage flip phones, which are not what I want. SO here I sit with my old garbage Moto Q 9m which I hated from the initial purchase date. It's buggy, freezes all the time, text messaging and winmo 6 are just garbage.
If I'm being forced to pay an additional 700+ dollars for an overpriced data service I might as well get a damn BlackBerry. The nickle and dime'ing is atrocious and I can't wait to leave the network now. My fiance' has the LG Voyager which she doesn't need the data plan for either.
When the time comes it'll be an iPhone or a BlackBerry on a network that won't be as solid as Verizon's but it will be more flexable hopefully. Hell, I'm even willing to deal with the constant Tmobile outages in NY (there was a big one last night for a few hours) if it means saving a few bucks and not having to worry about being locked in for a 700 dollar ETF for 2 phones on Verizon.
Did I mention I love my Fios tv service? Because I do although the dvr software is quite slow on being responsive but the PQ is far better than anything I ever had on TWC.
Grown up @ Nov 4th 2009 12:51PM
"With all that being said, I'm leaving Verizon come January when my fiancee's contract is up on our family plan.
I love the speedy csr pickups. I'm never on hold for more than a few minutes when I call, unlike when I was on Sprint and would sit on hold for 45 minutes on the regular disputing charges and other problems.
But, Verizon not just with this retarded INCREASE for an ETF, but when I went to purchase the HTC Hero since I'm available for an upgrade I was informed of Verizons mandatory data service plan for all PDA phones.
I don't want and don't need the web. I need it for texting, I prefer the qwerty style keyboard that I've had dating back to my Palm Treo 600. CSR pointed me to 2 garbage flip phones, which are not what I want. SO here I sit with my old garbage Moto Q 9m which I hated from the initial purchase date. It's buggy, freezes all the time, text messaging and winmo 6 are just garbage.
If I'm being forced to pay an additional 700+ dollars for an overpriced data service I might as well get a damn BlackBerry. The nickle and dime'ing is atrocious and I can't wait to leave the network now. My fiance' has the LG Voyager which she doesn't need the data plan for either.
When the time comes it'll be an iPhone or a BlackBerry on a network that won't be as solid as Verizon's but it will be more flexable hopefully. Hell, I'm even willing to deal with the constant Tmobile outages in NY (there was a big one last night for a few hours) if it means saving a few bucks and not having to worry about being locked in for a 700 dollar ETF for 2 phones on Verizon."
iphone? You mean the ADVANCED DEVICE that at&t (Yes that is the correct way to post the logo, all lowercase because it's not the ORIGINAL, It's Southwestern Bell Corp (AKA SBC Global) renamed yet again) will require you to have a DATA PLAN to activate? (Check the terms of service and READ the contract!) The phone that just got MMS capability? That AMAZING new feature?
Texting on a qwerty keyboard? Plenty of REGULAR cell phone currently have that option! You even mentioned one - Voyagers do not require a PDA plan, they are not a PDA. Other options include the EnV3 and EnV Touch, Samsung Alias 2, and Samsung Intensity.
But maybe the qwerty keyboard is not the only issue.
Too funny.... If you don't need a PDA, DON'T get one! It's that simple. If you're only getting a PDA to look like a grown up, then don't bitch about having to pay the bill, that's what grown ups do, pay the bill.
Jason @ Nov 4th 2009 12:54PM
You do realize that both T-Mobile and AT&T now require data plans with their smart phones, right?
http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/cell-phones/pda-phones-smartphones.jsp#sku3750232_a|||typcat1003=cat1003
http://www.t-mobile.com/shop/phones/Cell-Phone-Detail.aspx?cell-phone=HTC-Touch-Pro-2
Justin @ Nov 4th 2009 1:30PM
seriously dude, as a former sales person, we'd get opinionated idiots like you all the time, wanting PDAs but not the web. You come in with your dinosaur PDAs and take up sales reps time complaining about what you don't want. If you don't want the web, you don't want a PDA phone. there are plenty of fine qwerty phones out there, but no, people like you were always too good for that. I agree, Verizon is retarded sometimes, but in the world of wireless, if you wanna play, you gotta pay. Oh, and guess what? iPhone requires a data plan too. Make your choice based on your needs, not that you wanna look cool.
Christoper @ Nov 4th 2009 11:09AM
Oh yeah! Verizon's reps I always seem to get are from the Charlotte area, 1 time with Sprint I asked for a native English speaking rep due to the poor voice quality and "Mary" assured me she was and refused to give me a senior rep, and in a fit on rage and in hindsight a bit of racist angst on my behalf I screamed I can hear the elephants walking outside your third world window now give me your manager.
*click* and rightfully so I was out of line, but with my next phone call to sprint an hour later I finally had my service terminated with them.
And then 3 months later I had an ETF and bill for 3 months of service after I cancelled the service which I still get calls for eventhough I've sent letters and past bill statements and trying to go through csr to have it all removed. They don't care obviously and it's no wonder why they've lost 2 million plus customers over the past year. I hope they go the way of Worldcom as well.
nthn @ Nov 4th 2009 11:17AM
In Canada, most of the carriers require you to pay $20 for every month remaining in your contract.
Matt @ Nov 4th 2009 11:26AM
As sad as this is for those that are trying to filp their phone on ebay on a buy one get one free deal, it is a good business move by Verizon. They do not have the deal so that people can flip. Maybe if people did not take advantage of that situation, they would not have raised it. I am not defending them, but Verizon is not here to make you money on ebay. If you hate the ETF, buy the phone full price with no contract. It's that simple.
junior wizzy @ Nov 4th 2009 11:40AM
This isn't as ridiculous as it sounds. I know some companies that offer phones like the BB Tour, Palm Pre, Bold's, etc. for free, and they ship from the corporate warehouses. Customers would get the phones on 5 lines, and flip the phones for 350+, and only pay a termination fee of 175. This fraud usually happens in conjunction with a Tax ID and/or business account, and is how a ton of new devices hit eBay in mint condition (sometimes before release date). Let's put it this way... I KNOW this guy received these phones for next to nothing:
http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2009/06/05/palm-pre-hits-ebay-prior-to-official-launch-just-900-and-a-fis/
Bats @ Nov 4th 2009 11:55AM
Verizon gets a couple phones that people might want, and then hit them in the face with a $350 ETF. Many people will have no idea until the point of sale. "The Nations Greediest Network".
Grown up @ Nov 4th 2009 12:16PM
Two things to consider before you read the following comment:
1) I am American, born and raised
2) I have worked in the past for more than one communications company.
I thought I was reading a tech and news forum. A place for sharing ideas. What a joke!
1) Piss poor reporting to add your own personal opinion and commentary to a news story.
2)Grow up and get a damned life or better yet, cry more cabin boys of the world. You want everything handed to you foor free. You bitch and moan over data plan requirements but when data plans weren't required you WHINED and SCREAMED about being charged for data usage on pay as you go pricing plans!
3)When will you morons get it through your thick uneducated skulls that NO CARRIER manufactures the phones. That is the MANUFACTURER's territory or Job! Carriers don't get these things for free, they have to pay for them! You get phones for less than retail price because EVERY REAL carrier gets rated by Wallstreet for the number of customers they have under contract! And if you were one of the people opening a line to get a free phone just to sell on e-bay and then cancelling the service, well sad little child, you should be thankful that you're only paying an Early Termination Fee.
Rule # 1 of any business contract, for those of you whom were never taught by your mommy, daddy,high school or , laughably whatever papermill gave you your "degree", READ it before You sign it!
Rule #2 of any business contract, cell phone service, credit card agreement, house purchase, employment offer .... whatever... If you break it EXPECT a PENALTY!!
In my opinion, the penalties for breaking the contracts should be even higher than what they are.
ToddFSU @ Nov 4th 2009 1:32PM
You sir are an angry troll.
tra la la @ Nov 4th 2009 2:12PM
I don't remember posting this ... or your other post previously ...
well, maybe it's because *I* didn't, but it sounds EXACTLY like something I would say, and probably have said in the past.
Grown Up is a perfect moniker in a situation like this.
Just Need the Phone @ Nov 4th 2009 3:01PM
Can I get an AMEN?
If you can't stomach the terms in your contract, don't sign on the dotted line. You did read it, didn't you?
Either pay the retail price for the device and go month-to-month on your plan, or be prepared to pay ETF. It's not sexy advice, but it's simple, and it won't make you an indentured servant to a contract. Can't afford retail? Then you can't afford the device, or the plan.
uwaga dude @ Nov 4th 2009 3:45PM
You're an idiot. Where did engadget say they weren't gonna put their opinions on the blogs? They were nice about it, too. If I was a very popular tech blogger, I'm pretty sure Verizon would have about 10 million less customers than they currently have.
bread0124 @ Nov 4th 2009 1:39PM
Kudos grown up. If only the rest of the masses had your intellect we might not be in the condition we are in economically speaking. Can I have my pda now with no data plan :)
bernardino @ Nov 4th 2009 2:04PM
Just pray to the free-market god, I'm sure that it will prevent all the carriers from doing the exact same thing so you have a choice of different levels of ETFs.
bread0124 @ Nov 4th 2009 3:19PM
but its un-american to buy something you can afford. Isnt debt the only thing we manufacture here? Me thinks im on the wrong blog.
WTF @ Nov 4th 2009 4:53PM
Engadget i think you need to jump in and take verizon's side on this one. You of all companies should know it's a scam. You are scamming the company for your own profit when you are doing that and Verizon is right for trying to defend it'self.
", this pretty much guarantees that you won't be adding a line, disconnecting and then flipping that phone on eBay."
exactly
mitsoid @ Nov 4th 2009 5:02PM
Just like verizon to be expensive >.>
Great, now dropping a line on the last month (or day) of the contract will still cost you $110.. or you wait and pay your $60 phone bill then port out...
Just looks like a money gouging and inconveniencing customers to me. If they wanted to stop 'flipping' make the term fee $200 (reduced by $7/month like sprint). Now add in a $250 penalty for canceling service after 30 days but before 4 months (with exceptions, military, etc.)
Price to cancel Timeline:
31 days: $443
3 months: $429
4 months: $174
1 year: $116
23 months: $39
Given that the minimum plan for a smartphone is $70/month, after 3 months of service the customer already paid $200 to the company (company recoups most of losses)..
Hell, now that I think about it, it's a commissioned system. Verizon makes out like a BANDIT here..
1) They gained money from selling the phone to that retailer
2) They revoke payment to retailer for the account closing w/in 6 months
3) They collect ETF (and dont return any of that money to retailer)
4) They collect first bill from customer
Per 31-day cancellation Verizon will make a profit on this of:
~$10-40 per phone
~$350 ETF
~$70 First bill (before taxes, which doesn't really profit vzw)
~$35 Act. fee
If I were Verizon I'd be franchising out the business, $465-$500 profit per cancellation (remember, the phone was bought by the 3rd party vendor -- Walmart, letstalk, wirefly, Best Buy -- and not a company cost, plus their phones (generally) only work on their network so whomever buys the phone = more profit for VZW from data fees!)
And Yes, before you say so, Walmart sells it's cell phones through Letstalk, and Letstalk & Wirefly have huge penalties to recoup their losses (See point #1 & 2 above). So really just Verizon corporate stores take the beatings... and Best Buy.
Well, anyway, what a dashing tale of greed. Glad I'll be grandfathered -- but this will really make me consider switching when I have to resign
vzw#1 @ Nov 4th 2009 6:50PM
The sad truth to all of this is that verizon has been ripped of by numerous customers. If you break your lease, they charge you the full remaining balance of the contract. If you purchase something at subsidized pricing there has to be something that they can recoup. Stop wanting everything for nothing.
Jamar @ Nov 5th 2009 12:37AM
Then stop forcing everyone to go through hoops just to bring over their own unsubsidized devices.
JayMonster @ Nov 4th 2009 9:17PM
For the ETF, I don't think I could have said it better than Grown Up did, so I will leave it at that. (Well, except to say, have you seen the prices of these new SmartPhones? If the old ETF doesn't cover the cost of somebody breaking their contract, then the only logical business decision any smart businessperson can make is to get the ETF in line with the potential expense).
As for the Bitter Beer Face BS, why is it bitter to take a shot at Apple and at&t? It is competition. Period. Apple plays this game with little or no consequence all the time... why is it that they should be impervious to such things? Verizon has a good product that they can answer back with with some valid points, why is it "bitter" to flaunt those advantages they have?
Honeybear @ Nov 5th 2009 12:22AM
This makes absolutely perfect sense. To establish a line of service, carriers are not only giving a huge discount on the equipment itself, but it does cost money just to establish your account, so they lose big when people esablish an account just to sell a phone for their own profit. I totally agree that if you do not want a smartphone plan, then get a dumbphone...there are plenty that are similar enough to smartphones. I believe other carriers may actually follow suit on this one, because it's going to cause a lot of crooks to go to other carriers, buy expensive phones, and do the same thing with them. For those of you that use engadget as a place to bitch and moan about your current or past carrier, you can thank your fellow customers for this one. If people wouldn't have started scamming these phones from Verizon, they never would've had to do this. So how 'bout think about what you say first and bitch at the responsible party?
Jamar @ Nov 5th 2009 12:44AM
So tell me why I have to pay more? "Retail" pricing in America is so often inflated by the carrier too. While on GSM I have the option of going to Japan and buying a phone with appropriate "bang for the buck" this is prevented from happening on CDMA (AKA Verizon/Sprint).
Dylan @ Nov 16th 2009 9:54PM
Darren, nice post. I wanted to respond by adding a relevant (albeit unsolicited) piece of advice for those who are tired of gimmicky charges and fees within your cell bills. We tend to think of wireless costs as fixed, but you can tinker with your plan to optimize its features to best suit your usage and often generate significant savings in the process. I know this firsthand because I work in the consumer advocacy division of the Houston-based company Validas, where we electronically audit and subsequently reduce the average cell bill by 22 percent through our website, http://www.fixmycellbill.com (and I'll add that 22 percent equates to over $450 per year for the average user).
You can find out for free if fixmycellbill.com can modify your plan to better suit your individual needs by going to the website. Check out Validas in the media, most recently on Fox News at http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/consumer/conlaw/lower_cell_phone_bills_072409 .
Good luck to everyone reading on retaking control over your wireless expenses.
Dylan
Consumer Advocacy, Fixmycellbill.com