Google hits Android ROM modder with a cease-and-desist letter
[Via Android and Me]
[Via Android and Me]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
bob @ Sep 24th 2009 11:32PM
Stupid Google. They are trying to kill the best thing that has happened to the Android platform. If they stiffle this kind of development and modifications, we might all as well drop Android and move to iPhone - no difference then really and Apple at least puts out some decent hardware.
techRob @ Sep 25th 2009 5:44AM
Well correct me here but as I understand it the quarrel is about distributing closed-source applications that Google made - not about the OS itself. So technically that is logical because Google owns these applications (and certainly sees a value in them, although you are not paying for the applications... directly). So this is (somewhat) similar to someone who made a paid app on the market and does not want it to be distributed outside the market. It's his decision, his ownership.
Still, it baffles me why these G. applications are not open-source in the first place. That's the real game breaker here. I would love my Gmail app to have multitouch zoom on my hero.
Rojo @ Sep 25th 2009 10:08AM
Or maybe... an OS that isn't open but everyone knows its inner workings anyway and the developer of it frankly couldn't give a damn about things like... oh, xda-developers.com.
It works on TONS AND TONS of different smartphones too! Oh and anyone can distribute a program of any kind for it without approval from the OS developer! And you can download and run the stuff in tons of different ways, usually for free!
Hrm.. what was that mobile OS again? Man I always forget the name of it! Haha! Oh well.
000000 @ Sep 25th 2009 10:23AM
+1 @ Rojo
WinMo! FTW!
SoCoolCurt (PSN: KillaKornbread - XBL: SoCoolCurt) @ Sep 24th 2009 11:54PM
i thought this was an open source OS? modders should be able to do what they want with the OS.
Galen20K @ Sep 25th 2009 2:40AM
I agree, its the whole point ya know.
Plexus @ Sep 25th 2009 6:33AM
Why don't you try to read the article before spitting out guilty sentences?
Nobody argue with the possibility of distributing variants of Android, which is still open source for a reason ; the controversy is over apps such as Gmail, Gmaps, Gdocs etc, on which Google invested billions and over which it wishes to retain some control, and since, besides the codes ,Google also owns the servers necessary for these apps to work, I find it hard to blame them.
That said l also used and appreciated Cyanoid on the Magic before getting my new Hero with its excellent Sense UI
SoCoolCurt (PSN: KillaKornbread - XBL: SoCoolCurt) @ Sep 25th 2009 4:03PM
dude i understand that, and still feel like people should be able to do what they want with it. i mean if he is just cooking a ROM with those apps in it, then what is the problem? they are free apps anyway right? i mean Google offers free versions of all those apps for just about every other mobile platform, why should this be any different? because the phone says Google on the back of it?
i haven't used Android much personally so maybe i'm missing something but are those apps available in their marketplace? the modder could just leave them out and let people download them later.
canuckinnh @ Sep 25th 2009 2:03AM
As Google further penetrates the mobile market, we will see more of this behavior. It is all about control with these characters and the free apps they provide now will be leveraged by charging later.
ix @ Sep 25th 2009 12:33AM
100% You, is t-mobile's android slogan
most people just want or have an iphone. playing cat & mouse games with the few alpha geeks / developers acutally interested in your platform is pretty silly
Joel Lisenby @ Sep 25th 2009 12:36AM
Download the cyanogenmod petition from the Google Android Market. Change Google's mind. Get them back into the open source spirit.
Jason8 @ Sep 25th 2009 12:46AM
Just booted Android on my HTC Fuze so I could open up the Market and download this.
Very lame, Google. Very lame.
RCC2k8 @ Sep 25th 2009 12:59AM
I said it at first and time keeps proving me right. Android is a huge ripoff. So much for openness!
Andrew @ Sep 25th 2009 2:14AM
Come on, guys, don't be evil.
Anthony @ Sep 25th 2009 3:00AM
Android is open. Google apps are not.
The cease-and-desist does not reference distribution of Android, but of the closed-source apps. Apparently I'm the only one here who believes that Google is well within their rights . . .
bkfist @ Sep 26th 2009 11:08PM
Yes, they are within their rights, however, Android is pretty much unusable without the Google apps. Remember, that App Store (Market) itself is a Google application. There are no published APIs for the Google Market, no alternative OTA installation methods. (Yes, you could download and side-load an application.)
efekt @ Sep 25th 2009 3:11AM
Google would give him a nice job and he'll stop distributing - plain simple... ANYONE wants to work in Google :)
smover @ Sep 25th 2009 4:42AM
Are you kiddin' ? lol
Google, the new player selling your life piece per piece...
Remember their "Private life is over" thing...
bkfist @ Sep 26th 2009 2:43PM
Actually, Cyanogen would be a LOT more valuable (in terms of potential money making opportunities) to a phone manufacturer wanting to differentiate themselves from the "rest of the pack" than to Google.
Think how many people Motorola are probably employing right now working on Android, an all they have been able to come up with is the "MotoBlurr" interface?
They could ditch everyone and hire Cyanogen, put the extra money they are wasting into a really GOOD hardware (Fast CPU, great display, accelerated graphics) and have an absolutely KILLER phone that would blow the rest of the competition away. And they could keep "their" mods to themselves. As a licensee of the Google proprietary apps, they would already have the ability to redistribute the Google closed-source apps. Or how about Sprint, or T-Mobile hiring him.
Heck, Sprint could probably pick up about 30,000 users who seem to be incredibly happy with their Android phones thanks to Cyanogen.
Jason8 @ Sep 25th 2009 3:12AM
Google /is/ within their rights. However, it's totally and completely against the whole idea of an open OS (like Android claims to be.)
The Google Apps that are in question should be added to the Marketplace if they aren't allowed to be distributed with the Android OS itself. Google should be happy that it's child is taking off and becoming popular with both the everyday user and the hardcore poweruser. Android is getting more and more popular, and part of the reason is the fact that Cyanogenmod exists, much in the same way XDA-Developers has created a cult-like following of enthusiasts for Windows Mobile.
Without the enthusiasts, the platform will never grow. Why? Because those enthusiasts are the ones pumping out apps for the Android Marketplace.
This "cease and desist" basically kills the whole system and the spirit behind Android. It's sad.
Mat @ Sep 25th 2009 3:57AM
Wow, that blows. I installed Cyanogen Mod and it rocks - especially the Exchange mail client (without having to pay the $25 other developers are charging). It's pretty sad that given the purportedly open nature Google tries to make itself out to be that they have to go after someone who helps push that envelope. I can understand trying to keep some apps under control but this is a little too much. Doesn't even really sound like a move Google would usually make. Oh well, maybe they really want to be like Apple and Microsoft after all.
bob @ Sep 25th 2009 8:49AM
I actually wonder what is the big hoopla about these applications being part of Cyanogen's mods? Isn't his modded firmware being installed pretty much on devices that had these Google apps on them in the first place anyway?
RCC2k8 @ Sep 25th 2009 9:13AM
@bob: That's precisely the main issue. Google isn't really protecting any app. Those apps are already present in stock G1's and MyTouch3G's, which are the main target of the modded ROM's. The only thing Google is doing here is intimidating an Android enthusiast and other end users, because, and what members of the Google cult don't seem to grasp, Android is NOT really open. Android is open to Google partners, the manufacturers that get in bed with Google, but it is obviously not that open to end users.
Mindseye @ Sep 25th 2009 9:32AM
Well, if Google wants Cyanogen not to distribute the Google Applications like gmail ,maps and youtube, then why arent they:-
1) Available as separate download on market.
2) Why is their source present in repository same as Android?(exception is Maps, which has its own separate API).
Remove the google apps from Android source and then developers should be able to freely customized their ROMs.
So, instead cease and desist, they should have removed the code for gmail, youtube from Android source repository and encourage developers like Cyanogen, who are making Android popular.
Andrew @ Sep 26th 2009 12:00AM
This. This. A thousand times, this. Google absolutely has the rights to its own apps, but if it wants to make claims of openness then they ought not discourage the use of the parts of Android that make the phone usable. Android is open... only to HTC? Motorola? For Christ's sake, T-Mob is distributing the binaries every time they do an OTA update. I'm offended that I had to get elevated root privileges to install Cyanogen's ROM on MY "OPEN" SYSTEM. Power users aren't even asking to be catered to, guys. We just want to be free to do what we want with our own equipment. To free up Android, all Google has to do is distribute its closed portions through the market behind an industry-standard EULA. Until they do that, browbeating Cyanogen into submission is unjustified. They're totally within their rights, but there is a clear and unsettling disjoint between their stated intentions and their actions.
Ethan @ Oct 1st 2009 11:56AM
or they could just hire him..?
mb @ Sep 25th 2009 12:03PM
Put down the pitchforks, people. This is NOT what some of you are making it out to be. Google is not trying to discourage enthusiasts or stifle innovation. They want to see Android grow and evolve, and they understand that the community at large will be a very important part of that. This is why Android is an open source project in the first place. Google is simply trying to protect their own brand. The Google apps that are NOT open source really have no business being part of a re-distributed open source platform, anyway. Google wants to maintain control over how their apps are distributed, which is completely understandable. They need to protect their brand from association to unofficial (and there, not verifiably safe) builds of the Android platform. Can you imagine the PR nightmare that would ensue if it was found out that one of the modded Android builds was using GMail to turn phones into mobile spambots, or using Maps to spy on people and track their locations without them knowing it?
Google just wants to protect their brand by making sure their apps only appear on Android builds that they have approved. While there is always the danger of apps or modifications after the fact that might compromise *any* build of Android, at least Google can stand by the original builds that their apps appear on, which is the most control they can hope to have over the situation.
Vermithrax @ Sep 25th 2009 12:16PM
Nothing like a little corporate action to set the android community on fire...
FYI.. There is already an open project on XDA that is working on replacing the Google closed source apps with open replacements... and another solution to provide a version of CyanogenMod without the Google components...
So if the talks between Cyanogen and Google do not work out, there will still be options...
Atlantian @ Sep 25th 2009 4:06PM
THIS IS ALL ABOUT THE NEW ANDROID MARKET BEING RELEASED IN HIS ROM AND ENGADGET AND GIZMODO'S NEW STORY ON IT IT STEPED ON GOOGLES TOES CAUSE IT TOOK AWAY FROM THERE NEW RELASE
don't see how they can be mad google whole team of devs are sorry if one guy can debug,patch fix problems with and release the new versions of android long before there whole team can thats on them not him step the hell up and you will not get stuck the hell out
Brahmson @ Sep 26th 2009 7:53AM
In practicality Google now controls the Android market. If you go down the list of apps they close-sourced you will see that the barrier to entry into the market is too high for an open community to penetrate. Core components like "Market", "Sync" and others are just few examples.
The question is not the licensing rights they may have but the overall control they exert on the market. On the face of it one might think that Apple has the legal right to control the iPhone market. Not that simple. Both Apple and Google can do so as long as the FCC does not decide that it has a chilling effect on the market. You can disagree with the FCC's right to interfere, but that's another matter (the use of regulated airwaves gives the regulator some unusual powers).
Google just gave Apple a big argument to defent their rejection of Google voice.
And if this community of Android fans brings this issue up, Google may realize that it is in their own best LEGAL interests to back off. Other valuable arguments do not impress lawyers. Lawyers only understand legal arguments and once this issue is brought up to their attention they have a fiduciary obligation to inform Google of the exposure with the FCC case.
bkfist @ Sep 26th 2009 2:35PM
I agree completely that Google has the right, even the responsibility to control their closed-source software to prevent misuse of their applications and brand name.
What concerns me a **LOT** however, is the fact that not all of these applications (from what I have read) are available for download/installation apart from the "official" ROM.
Who wants an Android phone without the ability to watch flash/youtube, (OK, maybe some, youtube isn't exactly my first jump when I'm on the web, but I want the ABILITY to do so.) gmail, maps, latitude, app store etc. These closed source (although free) applications are what adds most of the "value" to the Android platform, at least at the moment. If/when open source equivalents of these become available, I would certainly support them by installing and using them.
The REAL problem, as I see it, is that since these applications are apparently NOT available as separate end-user installable applications, is that it is possible that when a telco produces a "custom ROM" for their network, if they don't want users having access to youtube, video, latitude, maps etc, and they remove these apps from their custom ROM builds that they push out over the air, we (Android users) will not have the ability to install these applications. This frightens me more than you can imagine.
I am already with a cellular provider (US Cellular) that deactivates built-in features (namely GPS) in their phones so they can "sell it back to you", and have been just sitting around, waiting for a year now (almost 18 months out of contract on my 3 1/2 year old blackberry) for *any* carrier that serves my area (absolutely NO GSM coverage here) to get an Android phone, *any* Android phone on the market, so I can get the h33l off of US Cellular with my 4 phones and my nearly $4000/year i spend with them.
I've been counting down the days since the announcement of the arrival of the Hero on the Sprint network, and now I'm having to re-think my decision in light of the new information I have learned about the non-availability of the Google closed-source applications for Android. I don't know if I would have any reason to NEED to install a custom ROM on the Hero, but I want the ABILITY to do so, should I want/need to do so to get the features/performance I want/need on my phone.
Unfortunately, the only viable alternative (The Nokia N900/maemo, or it's equivalent) I'm sure will be years away from any kind of a release on a CDMA network.
The aspect of "freedom" is *way* more important to me than "free".
Google needs to "free" their applications to be installable by anyone by making them available to be installed freely on Android regardless of the carrier, phone model, or underlying ROM that the end user is running. They can easily do this in a couple of way, and still keep full control over the software.
1. They can license the apps to Cyanogen to be included in the Cyanogen ROM builds.
2. They can make the apps downloadable by the end user by accepting the EULA. (I would even pay whatever the typical "going rate" is for the application, say $1 or $2 each for the ones I want re-installed... (even though I would have ALREADY PAID for it when I bought the phone)
Either way the end users win, and Google wins by both keeping control of their proprietary software and by keeping interest alive in their Android platform.
I've seen "studies" and such that the end-user doesn't care what operating system is running on their phones, it's the "experience" that matters. Maybe, maybe not, but I'll bet you that at *this point* there is a highly disproportionate number of adopters of Android based phones who absolutely DO care. Once the market if finally flooded on all networks with lots of Android based phones, and "Joe six-pack" starts to gobble up the phones for it's "user experience" it will be a different story, but if Google "kills their baby" before that can happen by alienating end users and developers, we may never know.
Am I going to avoid getting an Android phone next month from Sprint because of this, I honestly do not know. I have been waiting for 2 years to get my hands on an Android phone, I can wait a little longer if necessary. I might wait and see where this goes, what final stance Google takes with Cyanogen. These kinds of issues have a way of sorting themselves out quickly, if the resolution is going to end up being "good" for the end user, and dragging themselves out for a LONG time when the end result is going to be bad. I am hoping that this issue can be worked out very quickly, and to the benefit of all involved.
Joe @ Sep 28th 2009 4:13PM
I agree with bkfist. There wouldn't be a bit of a problem if google would provide their apps to the existing users via the market. What people who use Cyanogen's ROMs look for is a faster and more reliable system to put on their phones. Especially on the too-few-memory-inside G1 his ROM was the only reason I kept my phone instead of switching to another OS. If google should by there actions stop the development of custom ROMs there is no reason for me to stick with their system.